Poll Results - June 2002

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Poll Results for the following Question:

How would you describe your professional relationship with medical doctors and/or chiropractors in your area?

Results:

Excellent
29.0%
Good
32.8%
Fair
23.2%
Poor
14.9%

Total Respondents: 241

Comments:

Note: These comments are reproduced as written by visitors to this Web site.
They have not been edited for content, grammar, or spelling.

BirdieC@aol.com
Excellent ACCUPUNTURE ROCKS! it is the only thing that has helped
me. I was a dancer and had dance taken away from me in a
blink of an eye, Accupunture got me to the point where I am
back at dance.I have never been so happy and I defend the
theory of accupunture agains everyone who is nieve
enough to appose it with out any research. Because if they
did do the research they would see, it is a life savor.

beansoup @sprynet.com
Excellent I bill insurance for my patients and often need referrals from their primery care providers. With the appropriate information they have been very open to writing referrals for acupuncture. Neurologists are the most acu-friendly. All requests require western medical diagnosis and sometimes extra explaination about acupuncture's abilities in non pain syndromes. After requesting and obtaining hundreds of referral only one MD told his patient that he "would never write a referral for that voodoo". So that patient paid cash for his visit and changed doctors. The only problem I have is with the sometimes dangerous modalities (surgical and pharmacological) that western doctors employ but that is the fault of the system that trains and supports them not the physicians themselves. -Justin in NJ

Anonymous
Good Dear embarrassed,
If your so enamoured with the MD's, how come you didn't become one. Probably could'nt make the grade, huh.

Anonymous
Fair the medical field in my area has become a business rather than a health concern. I find it very difficult to get a practitioner to actually listen to what is going on in your life and how that relates to health. Medical doctors are too quick to make out a prescription and make a follow up appointment and move on to the next patient

Anonymous
Excellent I've been getting acu treatments since the very early '80's and began my studies then. I love what I do and have more than excellent relationships with MD's. Actually more than I could possibly have imagined a dozen years ago. All of the MD's whom I mention in the body of this letter have had numerous acupuncture treatments and some herbal medicine. Several know more about healing with food than many of the OM practitioners I know.

I left a position in a comp med dept at a medical school in early 2000, went into private practice and have recently been asked to practice with a hematology/oncology group of 4 MD's. Another MD associate, in his mid-50's, in practice for 27 plus years has a keen interest in OM and is reading these recommended several books: Web, Foundations and a few others.

I CONTINUE TO BE EXTREMELY EMBARRASSED for and by those Acupuncturists and DC's whom insist on denigrating MD's; especially those whom are completely clueless (and perhaps quite jealous) as to what it really takes to become an MD, especially in these days of managed care, where the money isn't all that great anymore, kiddos.

My 42 year old brother-in-law, a general surgeon (and trauma DR), finally paid off his student loans last year. Sure, his office billed about 1.3 million dollars in '01......but collections were less than 400K....thanks to managed care and medicare, and he has a "hawk" as an insurance staff member. His malpractice insurance in a heavy litigious region was almost 60K last year and he's never even been sued. His overhead is way up there and as I recall his take home pay was less than 100k for that year. DO THE MATH. QUIT YOUR WHINING. And all those years of sacrifice and indebtedness. On top of that he and my sister are off to do two weeks of volunteer surgical work in a 3rd world locale later this summer. Two surgeons in his region filed bankruptcy last year. Any of you guys know how much it takes personally and financially to run a medical practice like this? Especially in underserved or poor regions of the country? AGAIN, QUIT YOUR WHINING AND DO THE WORK.

Another thing I've noticed in your string of messages is an almost total lack of knowledge about MD's training. (Perhaps ignorance is bliss for many of you.) Not only do they attend the 4 years of med school, most then continue on with 3 years of an Internal Medicine residency program and THEN they do ANOTHER 2 to 5 years (or more) of specialty fellowships and/or residency programs on top of that. COUNT THE YEARS, DO THE MATH, of training, personal sacrifice, indebtedness.

AGAIN, QUIT YOUR WHINING, PUT SOME THOUGHT INTO IT, DO YOUR WORK, AND PLEASE QUIT EMBARRASSING OUR PROFESSION AS OM PRACTIONERS.

I have numerous other family members whom happen to be MD's; one a triple. For those of you that do not know about this, these guys attended med school, then 3 years Internal med residency, then 3 years Cardiology residency, then another few years residency in electrophysiology. He installs pacemakers, etc. Gee, if I recall, he was in his training non-stop from high school until he was in his mid- 30's. He is now 41 and has had some acupuncture treatments and found it useful. His wife is an oncologist with many, many years of training as well. She's Asian. They and my nephews live a VERY OM type lifestyle.

And finally, our father, whom we rarely saw as children, aged before his time, because his patients demanded so much from him at all hours of the day and night...sort of a 24/7 practice for those old guys practicing medicine back in the 60's through the early 80's.

I REITERATE: PLEASE QUIT EMBARRASSING OUR PROFESSION.

Anonymous
Fair i think it could be improved as doctors/chiropractors seem to assume that us patients don't know anything about a particular sort of medical condition that people that people can have for example autistic people. Doctors think that we don't know how to handle an autistic child. For this reason the way doctors talk to us can be improved.

Anonymous
Fair If MD's don't appreciate what DC's and other holistic practioners do, how come their research is stolen by MD's and more and more medical colleges are teaching holistic methods like spinal manipulation, massage, acupuncture, and ayurvedic medicine? I guess not enough is taught in medical schools that enable them to help their patients!

Anonymous
Good anyone can sit around a hospital residency program for " 20,000 " hours and drink coffee.

Anonymous
Good Joke this! We must look a a medical physicians training and a chiropractic physicians training in context. Each physician is trained within their specific specialty. If you want to be a surgeon you go on for that training. If you want to be a neurologist, continue for that training. Etc. etc..
Chiropractic colleges offer similar programs to that of medical colleges with greater hours in diagnosis, neurology, radiology etc., etc.. The hours of study while in school are the same for other courses. The courses are the same; histology, anatomy, physiology, obstetrics, gynecology, pediatrics etc., etc.. In fact, chiropractic physicians perform their residency while in school under supervising doctors while attending all their 3rd and 4th year classes. Extremely long hours are put in by the chiropractic physician student to learn proper physical examination techniques and orthopedic diagnosis, neurological diagnosis, radiologic diagnosis, clinical labratory diagnosis, pediatric diagnosis, gerentology etc.. A chiropractic physicians training also continues after graduation with some states requiring further residency. Also there are specialties such as in orthopedics, neurology, radiology, occupational health, pediatrics, physical rehabilitation, acupuncture and oriental medicine, sports etc., etc. that chiropractic physicians take to further their training. So you see the training is equilivant except for hospital rotations,surgery or pharmachology ( although some chiropractic physician programs now do this). Any one can continue their education forever and as a health care provider you should always continue learning. Remember this thought; its not how long you go to school, or for that matter what school you go to, but what you put into your work and take with you to help the ailing conditions of mankind that matters most. You could buy your way through Harvard Med. and still be a moron who did not study. The training is relatively the same. In fact a chiropractic physicians training goes far beyond their scope of practice and is equilivent to a general MD's upon graduation and then becomes more specialized. These are the facts.

Anonymous
Good MDs and chiropractors should *not* be linked.

Anonymous wrote: "Chiropractic Physicians and Medical Physicians are placed on par with each other because their academic and clinical training is similar with few differences. Their academic and clinical training along with that of MD's is the highest in the health professions."

Just the facts, M'am. Chiropractors do have receive a fraction of the amount of training MDs do. Most colleges of chiropractic are 3-year programs. MDs must complete four years of medical school and a minimum of 3 years residency (surgeons generally complete at least 5 years of residency). The shortest amount of time from entering medical school until exiting the shortest residency (general internal medicine, general pediatrics, or family practice) is 7 years. During residency, interns routinely work 100+ hours a week. The total training hours for an MD can reach 20,000+ hours. At most, so-called "doctors" of chiropractic receive only 5000+ hours of training, no hospital rotation, no residency and no training in any medical specialty other than chiropractic manipulation. To claim their training is "similar with few differences" to MDs is a joke.

spyn_doc@hotmail.com
Good My relationship with other providers is good. I have less trouble with Chiropractic Docs ( I am one ) than M.D.'s.

Anonymous
My relationship with my medical doctor is poor. My relationships with my Natropath, Accupuncturist and Chiropractic are excellent. And, I totally enjoy my massage therapist.

Medical Doctors no longer practice the art of medicine, they simply pay homage to the pharmaceutical companies and Insurance companies who have taken over the field. It is disgraceful!

westwriter@earthlink.net
Excellent February 16, 2002, I was in a very bad high-speed
rollover car accident where I was thrown through
the window.

I sustained extensive facial damage, a broken
back, broken jaw, and tears in my rotator cuff of
my left shoulder.

I now have titanium rods in my back (3 breaks in
my thoracic spine-bone from my hip was used to
replace discs) The first facial reconstruction
saved my right eye, using a titanium mesh eye
socket. Also 6 titanium plates were put in my face,
and my jaw was wired shut for 2 months.

Because my right cheek bone was pulverized, it
wasn't fixed. I am awaiting another facial
reconstruction to fix my face which includes a
broken nose. My whole face was smashed in and
must be 'pulled' out' and my right cheekbone must
be rebuilt. First we must wait for the bone to heal
to there is a platform to work on.

In the meantime I was given Percocet for pain. I
no longer wear my plastic shell for support, and
am doing well.

My left shoulder was excruciatingly painful and
nothing could help. I was told to get an MRI and
then possibly surgery to repair the tear.

Because no pain meds worked, I discovered
Korean Hand Therapy. Dr. Park (Fountain Hills,
AZ) has worked on me for two weeks (5
sessions) and I am amazed and pleased with the
results.

My left arm is better, but still has a long way to go.
My back feels much better as well. My neck and
shoulders give me constant pain, but it is not as
bad.

I used to spend most of my days laying in bed for
relief. Now I only lay down a couple of times, and
can spend much more time on my computer than
before.

Dr. Park told me to go ahead with the MRI if I
wanted, but give him a month to get my left arm
working again before I plan surgery.

I still can't open my jaw except to get a toothbrush
in. I am hoping his therapy will help me there as
well.

I am extremely happy to not take drugs! I do take
homeopathic remedies to help with the regrowth
of cartilage, bone, nerves and inflammation. Dr.
Park doesn't speak much English, so
conversation isn't as fluent as I wish it could be,
but I am so pleased with the success I have found
thanks to Dr. Park.
Sincerely,
Suzanne Westerly

eggunseye@37.com
Fair i would like to have the cooperation?intergrative hrealthcare made available to seniors,low income citizens who most need the service at affordable fees are thru our hmos(even medicaid)-ie-my primary dr. should be able to refer me to chiropracters,nutritionists as well as other wholistic healthcare practitioners instead of those new medications whose side effects are worse than the original problem.

Anonymous
Good I have been pleasantly surprised at how accepting and helpful MD's & DC's have been. Six area MD's have refered at patients as have 3 DC's.

On the other hand, I have found that there is a lot of jealousy and cattiness amongst my area's acupuncturists.

octhill@mwt.net
Fair There are not enough doctors in this area, to get an appt. when one is needed. There are not any specalists unless called. There is not one acupuncturist in this area. When I did see an acupuncturist it was more than 60 miles on way. All serious medical cases must go to either LaCrosse or Madison, Wi. unfortunately.

Anonymous
Excellent For the unenlightened "Golden" boy.
Chiropractic Physicians and Medical Physicians are placed on par with each other because their academic and clinical training is similar with few differences. Their academic and clinical training along with that of MD's is the highest in the health professions. While being fully trained in western diagnosis and dealing with a broad range of cases the chiropractic profession has limited itself to not prescribing drugs and or performing surgery. This is changing. More and more chiropractic physicians want to prescribe pain killers, muscle relaxors and anti-inflamatories. This is a great thing since they know many cases don't need these meds, less will be perscribed. In some states DCs can perform minor surgery and deliver babies. The chiropractic physicians training is at the same level as an MD's and slightly better in some areas according to recent studies. The chiropractic physician is also a strong provider of wholistic health care including but not limited to; acupuncture, massage, herbs etc.. Chiropractic is the largest health care profession outside allopathic medicine and is now considered mainstream healthcare and no longer "alternative". The American Chiropractic Association afiliated doctors also help, encourage and teach other professions like acupuncture, massage and naturopathy.

dmcadamslac@cox.net
Good I am a registered nurse as well as an acupuncturist, and so I have an advantage in that I've worked with a lot of local MD's for years. Some are very interested in acupuncture and CAM, others think I'm basically crazy for pursuing this medicine. Most have been very supportive and although I've only been in practice now for a few months, I believe I'll be getting some referrals. MD's have always been the kings in the world of Western Medicine - and some are threatened by alternative medicine, and when their patients ask about it they tend to "pooh pooh" it - because they basically don't understand it. But as their patients share more positive feedback, and they become more educated about it - I believe they will see the value of having the option to refer patients to acupuncturists when indicated. We need to educate the Western MD's about our medicine - when they are convinced that it works - through research, personal experience, or through patient feedback - then we can expect more referrals!

nagakanya555@hotmail.com
Excellent It has taken quite some time for Allopathic doctors on our island in Micronesia to become
comfortable with the local Acupuncturists. Some still are ambivelant but the referrals are
coming in. Infact, we now have insurance coverage--$50.00 per treatment up to 10 treatment.
We also can provide care for Medicaid/Medicare patients. I am the only OMD who has
hospital privileges--acupuncture for labor--thus, this is a step forward.
Yes, I would take the same professional path as I have chosen and am delighted that I also
have degrees in Education, (thus helps my teaching others) and epidemiology and maternal
and child health. I do have to admit that these additional degrees have opened doors far more

Anonymous
Excellent The MDs, chiros in my area are great to work with. Even MCO MD's refer to AP care. I suppose it all depends as to the practitioner's willingness to work within the specified guidelines of western medicine.

golden@iserv.net
why was chiro's equated with MD's?

delissalde@spa.net
Good I have mixed feelings about my experiences with western health care providers in my area (Saratoga Springs, NY). I initially rented a space from an MD in the area. On the one hand he did rent space to me, but on the other he was telling his clients when they asked about my services, "Why do you want to try Chinese Medicine, it doesn't work anyway". Needless to say I never got one referal from that doctor, and Needless to say, I am not renting there any more.
Every single chiropractor I have talked to here (10 or 20 of them) has been totally receptive to the idea and all have wanted me to rent space form them. Most though, have no idea what Chinese Medicine is or can do. They believe it is only good for pain management. One comment we got was "you shouldn't say you can treat all these conditions - that is how we (chiropractic practitioner) got into trouble before". I guess they are only a few years past their own lawsuits with the AMA so they must feel some kinship with us!
One doctor in our area actually believes our medicine has something to do with the occult! He told one of our patients, "why would you, a good christian, go to them". He is a very fundamental reborn type. It does take all kinds. One day I am just going to go into his office carrying some shamanistic type masks and ask to rent some space from him!! HEE HEE

aculife@hotmail.com
you cannot group together medical doctors and
chiropractors, it's a totally diferente thing. my
relationship with chiropractors is excellent. my
relationship with medical doctors is non existent.

sincerely,

m.camp